Just an observation of mine. Wilde has put alot of greek mythology in this story, but I found a similarity in one Wilde does not mention: The story of Medusa. Medusa starts off as a beautiful youth, as Dorian does, but is turned into a monster. She also kills with a glance, which is alot like when Basil was killed moments after looking upon the hideous portrait of Dorian.
I agree with Becca, I think that Dorian is really insecure and looks to others for acceptance. I think that by the portrait slowly becoming more evil, it is killing Dorian because that is the only way that he can be remembered.
After Dorian kills basil he Alan ask to help him dispose of the body why is dorian not able to do it himself? why let someone else know about what he did?
katherine, do you think in showing Basil the painting, and Basil's harsh reaction, that this destroyed any hope of acceptence that Dorian thought he could attain?
Alex great connection i hadn't thought of that. So do the eyes really hold the truth of ones soul? What does this mean for Dorian what do you think his eyes look like.
I think that the painting becoming more evil and Dorian realizing this is making him go insane. I think that Dorian killing Basil showed us this. Do you guys think that Dorian will kill anyone else in the story potentially? Or be killed?
Abok- I think that he wanted help because he had no idea of what else to do. He is so young and didnt know what he has done, its the devil coming out in him.
katherine- i definetly agree. anone who would sell their soul for eternal good looks defeinetly thrives on others approval. But it hardly makes a difference becuase his actions make people distaste him even if he is beautiful.
abok, I'm pretty sure that 1. Dorian blackmailed Alan, and2. Alan had the means to dispose of the body better than Dorian could
AlexI think he asks Alan to do it for him because he doesn't want any trace left of Basil and he knows that Alan can achieve this. Dorian does not know how to et rid of the body completely
abok- i think that he saw something as low as disposing of a body as beneath him. Hes high in the social ladder and if he can get someone whose lower on the social ladder to do something that is that foul, than he'll do it.
Alex- He asks Alan to dispose of the body because he is a chemist who could destroy te body and I also think Dorian didn't want to do it becauase he didn't want to get caught. After killing Basil, Dorian wanted to get out of there and away from the body.
Matt- I defiantely agree with you about Dorian thriving on others approval. I just find it ironic that even though he is beutiful physically he is still startingto become so evil that others are starting to disapprove of him reguardless of his appearance.
Afoyle- i strongly agree with what you said, I think that anyone who doesnt like him, ultimately has no hope of living because the evil side of him will come out, and hurt the one who doesnt think that he is the best. But its wierd to think that Dorian might have had something to do with Sybils death because she was so in love with him and admired everything that he did.
Katherine- I agree that Dorian is truly insecure. I also think that the stress of keeping his portrait secret kept weighing down on him and because it was such an obsession, it sort of drove Dorian crazy and he felt he had to show someone just to feel the relief of revealing his sins.
DO you guys think that Dorian feels bad about killing Basil? How do you think it will affect him later?
alex- Dorian had Alan get ride of the corpse because he was a chemist. he could get ride of any trace of the body with chemicals and certain techniques that chemist know
cecily, The painting is still described as having a tinge of the once blue eyes. I think that this shows what once was Dorian, but I think it may also be a lure for those who still try to find beauty in Dorian (which, as Basil found out, could be dangerous).
I also agree with Katherine, Dorian is looking for acceptance, Basil didn't accept him and things didn't end well for Basil. Why else would be not have married the actress. His friends didnt approve so he changed things.
CecilyJThe idea of ones eyes holding the truth of ones soul is a common theme. They are most commonly known as windows to the soul or doorways. I believe that Dorian's eyes are more windows to his soul, that he is otherwise able to hide his shame except through his eyes. Or maybe that his eyes are empty because of the portrait, his "soul" is trapped inside the portrait and in order to see his soul you would have to look into the eyes of the portrait.
I agree with Tucker, I think that if people can get away with it than they will do it. I completely think taht this defines human nature and their persuit of pleasure. But does this show that humans are naturally good or evil?
tucker- i agree (even if you can't hear me). Dorian is very narsassistic (spelling?) and seeks others approval so much that his actions are destroying his soul.
Katherine and Matt I agree with you that it is human nature to pursue others approval in ones looks. Because Henry had such a effect on Dorian, Dorian came to see only surface beauty in people and sought others approval through surface beauty
After dorian kills basil he draws portraits of him. After sibyl dies he has basil make a portrait of her. Why does Dorian do this? do the portraits make up part of Dorian's portait? Does he realize his feelings for them, or move on with a picture of them? Why doesn't dorian draw both?
kenny- i agree with you. the eyes are generally the gateway to the soul, and if you didn't have a soul your eyes would be empty. That makes sense. Do you think it's possible for him to regain his soul? its a random question but yeah.
Katherine: I think that the reason that Dorian may have had something to do with Sybil's death because she adored him so much. Dorian seems to have something to do with the downfall of many young people, and I think that this could be because he sees everything as a play toy orentertainment. Since he is in a way invincible atleast appearance wise, he does not know reality and so he cannot understand how much he hurts people.
emily h., Yes, I do believe that Dorian feels remorse for killing Basil. If the portrait is truly a mirror into his soul, the fact that Dorian's picture still has some traits the same means he is not completely lost; just corrupted.
emily- i dont think that him killing Basil will affect him emotionally at all. i think that he is lost and he will not be negatively affected emotionally by murdering basil
So do we think that Henry is one who closely resembles the devil?
Emily H.- I think Dorian does feel bad about killing Basil but at the same time i do not think it will effect him in the future. It is very similar to the death of sybil. he felt bad the day after but looked past it quickly.
Emily-I'm not sure that Dorian feels bad for killing Basil, but he definitely knows that it was wrong and wants to flee. Dorian is so messed up now and doesn't seem to care about anything but himself
to cecilyAre dorians eye windows to his soul or miorror of others desires?
DO you guys feel that the story's theme of hedonisitc and self pleasure adn persuing it is becoming more obvious as the book goes on? What do you think its going to take to make Dorian change his behavior of do you think he ever will? Along with that what will happen to the painting?
afoyle- i disagree. I think that the similarities in the portrait simply show that dorian is being twisted. Hes not changing into something else, hes still who he was before. His souls just twisted beyond recognition.
alex b.- i think Dorian is set on the fact that a painting is how people are remembered. This is why he is so self concious about his own painting.
AlexI think that Dorian wants a portrait of sibyl so that he can remember her in her purity, and innocence and mystery that he so loved about her. Do you think that DOrian's eyes change with the picture of stay innocent. I think they would be corrupted as well because of all of the horrors he sees
mattwI think that earlier had he tried to save his soul he could have figured something out, but he is past the point of return with all that has happened and all that he has done.
Matt: I do not think that Dorian can gain his soul back. I think that maybe at the beginning he could have turned good or even before he killed basil he could have gotten his soul back, but now he has dug himself too big of a whole to get out of.
Emily H- I do think that Dorian will show some regret, if not now, then in the future. The murder he committed seemed spur of the moment, he did not invite Basil over with the intention to kill him. I think Dorian is very much aware of the evil he has created in his life, and I think that it's taking a serious toll on him mentally. If he was truly completely bad then he would not care about the portrait or his impact on others, but there have been numerous times Dorian has looked back and considered his negative effect on people.
samantha- where are you
katherine,It would seem that way as Henry is the tempter and the one who has shaped Dorian to be the way he is. But that also means that now Dorian is going against (kind of, he has grown defensive towards him) Henry and, therefore, the devil.
allie- i agree with you that dorian is taking a mental beating in this story. Hes trying to please everyone and maintain his beauty but everyone is hating him because of his actions and his eternal beauty. His whole reason fo selling his soul was to make himself happy and he's not happy at all.
Katherine- i think the devil in this story will be determined by how Lord Henry handles this situation. If he burshes off the death of his good friend then he is representing the devil. If he takes it to heart he is not.
I think that he hasn't really matured, he hasnt had a need to. This is because people accept him for who he is and he has never need to change because accept him as he is, but they dont know his true self.
matt- i think that the only way Dorian couild have saved himself was to become good friends with Basil. but he ends up killing him. i thought that Basil could have helped dorian find himself again. Dorian has past the point of no return
Emily I think that Dorian is pursuing a way to become pure again, but he can't figure our how. He has reached a level of such corruption and in the beginning he loved that corruption. I think DOrian is exploring everything he can think of to find pleasure and innocence again but it is not possible anymore
KatherinI don't think that henry is the devil, but more the puppet master. that know has no more puppet. Dorian has learned what he has wanted to learned from henry. If he learned everything then dorian would be a copy of henry. Now henry is just someone who dorian respects, fears sometimes, but i think that dorian looks down on him sometimes
Emily H- I think that the theme of hedonism has become more prominent through the chapters, but Wilde also shows the downside to this seflish attitude on life. Dorian is not happy, despite the mask he sometimes puts on. His impact on others and even himself show the cons to this lifestyle.
I agree that he has looked back on how he may have effected other people a few times, but I do not think he has felt bad about it, it is more like he just looks at the other people in his life as little things in the past that do not matter. I do not think he actually feels any remorse because he does not think of things realistically.
What do you guys think will happen to Dorian, will he be able to find his way back to purity, or are his wrongs so extensive that there is no hope. What does this say about wilde is he a pessimist or an optimist?
cecilyj, I think that is the reason Dorian's eyes haven't changed, so that he can still see, from a perspective of good, all the horror he is causing.
allie- wilde has really show both sides of the coin in this entire story. Hes shown the posotives of hedonism and the negatives. And when dorian gets his wish of eternal beauty wilde shows how it helped him at first but ended up destroying him. Hes shown everything completely, not just showing one side of the story.
Cecily-I think that it is always possible for Dorian to find purity, but for what I have seen, I don't see him changing anytime soon
Class- what do you think about Dorian's drug use? Is it symbolic of anything? Is it importannt that his drug of choice is opium?
Wilde's beliefs of victorian society are portrayed throughout Dorian Gray. He believes that although on the surface beauty can seem like a good thing, in actuality it is destructive.
Cec Mo-I dont think that Dorian will be able to go back to being pure because he cares too much about what people think of him. Without his popularity he would have to live with himself and not be able to handle it.
cecilyj, I think that it really doesn't matter. I think that Wilde is trying to show us that selfishness is all a hedonist knows and that when being selfish, morals have no say.
cecilyjI think that Dorian will build up very large, almost even godlike, and then end up loosing it all somehow, that it will all end suddenly for him. The bigger you are the harder you fall. It almost seems like Wilde could be showing that all the little white lies could add up, white lies being his "sins" or wrong doings.
michael- how do you think that he could find purity? i agree that he can change if he wants to but im just wondering how you think that he can go through with it? The only way i think that he could restore his soul would be to confess to his sins, but i dont think that he even feels remorse for what he's done wrong.
michael- i disagree, Dorian has became a murderer without remorse. he has gone so far down the wrong path that i cant see him finding purity again. he is too lost and just murdered another friend
cecliyif dorian wants o picture of Sibyl to remeber her purity then why does he sketch basil? i think that Dorians eyes were never innocent after he realized the power of influence that he could have over people. Each time a person looked at him when he entered a room, how henry was abosbed with him, Dorian was never innocent after he realized the power of beatuy he had of people.
Cecily- i disagree. I dont think Dorian is on his way back to purity. He may want to be pure but he is stuck and can not find how to get out. He has established his way of living and does not want to go back.
I do not think that Dorian will be able to find purity. How could he? He has already commited many taboos such as murder, blackmail and other things like this. I think that he will start to feel bad or realize that how he lives his life is wrong, but he will never be able to go back to the way he was before he met Harry. I think that he might either be killed before he can become good or his secret will be shown to the world and he will be forced to change.
I agree with Courtney, what you have is never enough. There is always desire for more. Nothing- is ever good enough.
allie, I think that the significance of opium is just that it was a drug widely used during the Victorian Era, but it does have a connection to other writers, namely Lewis Carroll (author of Through the Looking Glass, Alice in Wonderland, etc.)
I think that Dorian's drug use portrays the fact that he has hit rock bottom. While his body may not be being harmed by the drugs his mind is. He has begun to rely on opium to numb him from the pain of the realities he has created.
In the last few chapters drugs have become present in Dorian's life. why do you think this is so?
cecily- how could he be back on his way to purity? he just murdered a smoewhat of a close friend. he even black mails one of his old friends in order to cover up hi murder. again he is scared of the consequences and responsibilties and he is showing no chang. he is too lost to become pure again
Emmalshould dorain be able to find purity? you mention all the things that he has done, does dorian deserve to find peace?
I agree with Emma in that I don't see a way out for Dorian, I think he will end up being killed or even killing himself. He is going through a lot of stress, although he does do a good job of hiding it. I don't think it's too much of a stretch that the pressure of keeping up this double life will cause Dorian to go crazy and kill himself.
I think that Dorian will eventually realize how corrupt he has become. He will attempt to become pure again, but his actions will catch up with him and the result will be fatal ...
Do you think that all of Dorian's behavior has been due to his influence by Henry? Or do you think he has developed evil of his own?
I agree with Cecily, maybe the drugs can show that he can go no lower. Many times in society today, celebrities go to rehab for drugs or some other type of addiction and then they are able to turn their lives around. this could either be the turning point for Dorian or the place where he gets so deep into his bad life and sins that he fails at living.
I think that his use of drugs is the last straw to break the camels back. He has done so many other cultural taboos, why not drugs? Narcotics are usually used for pleasure, an escape, so maybe Dorian is trying to escape evil through another evil.
emily h- i think that henry nudged dorian down the path of evil, but dorian walked the rest of the way by himself. Henry couldnt force him to do some of the things that he's done.
I agree with Allie, i dont see any possible way of Dorian comming out of this novel in good shape. He is lost, his personalities and views are twisted. it doesnt seem like he will turn around at all.
DanielI think that he will regret what he has done. Whether or not you consider this to be a return to purity is up to you. I don't think Dorian can ever be pure again I think that the guilt will over take him and he will die painfully
Drugs have been introduced to Dorian's life because he wants to find pleasure and has nothing left to resort to. Dorian still wants to have this high of pleasure so Drugs are the next step in his road. I don't know if he did, but this could relate to Oscar Wilde and if he did drugs of not. If he didn't, drugs might be in this story because Wilde thought that is what would help or what people at Dorian's level resort to.
I thinkt That Dorian becan his bad cycle because of Harry, but it is not the sole reason. Harry planted the idea in his head that he is beautiful and caused him to make the wish on the portrait, but then Dorian is the person who took it far enough to think of everything and everyone as materialistic. this was not an idea from Harry, it was just something that came from him getting everything he wanted and feeling no repercussions for his wrong doings.
emily h., I think that Dorian developed his own evil. Henry only promoted vanity and selfishness, but never murder or blackmail or drug use. I think, though Henry "planted the bug" of Dorian's evil, I think Dorian's own premonitions and mentality caused it to spread and worsen.
Wilde seems to focus a lot on description, how do you think that the colors play a role in the novel?
CecilyJI agree, I think that Dorian might end up going through a huge change of views and then end up seeing the ways of his sin, then he will maybe try to change it, but what has been done is already done, and he will pay for it as is.
i think that the drugs dorian is taking will give him a false sense that none of this is really his fault. and this will just add to his fall
Question-Do you think Dorian is suicidal? There is a line in which Dorian says: "I wish it were fin du globe. Life is a great disappointment."
Afoyle-I can see Dorian as suicidal because soon if not now, he won't know what to do. All of these problems he puts himself into, are going to catch up with him and we've seen this before. Someone who is really arogant and admired by many become stressed and end up killing themselves. Because Dorian "doesn't get older" he could become bored or whatever and kill himself
I do think that Dorian is suicidal. I think that Dorian would decide to kill himself rather than to have the world know about his secret. His secret has always consumed his life and has always been the most important.
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