In response to Melinda's question about the significance of the gravediggers being clowns, it is mostly because they are used as the comic relief. I think it is ironic that the gravediggers, who deal daily with such a serious thing like death, are portrayed as clowns. This is definitely an example of comic relief.
I think Shakespeare was making fun of the middle class because they were uneducated but wanted to be. It seems like that is one of the defining characteristics of that class. I also agree with that it was comic relief.
Brooks- i know you're on the inner circle so you won't know that i'm even talking but i'll say it anyways. I agree with your statement that Hamlets comfort with death forshadows his upcoming death.
Class-In this last act there is a large amount of death. By the end we have seen that at least 7 characters have died. What is significant about the number of deaths that occur so late in the play?
I am confused what really happened with Hamlet and the pirates. Did he really get back because he went over to their ship when they were attacked or was it something else?
I think that the gravediggers are portraying how the middle class is so ignorant compared to the high class, like Hamlet. Maybe Shakespeare is showing what the people think, instead of the royalty.
Leigh - I think it is Shakespeare's way of showing that the play is coming to and end. This is sort of the grand finale, and we finally see some closure for the characters.
Leigh- It was obvious that an outcome like this would occur. It is just interesting he had almost all the deaths at the end. I think he just wanted to show the steps of the emotions of characters and how they come to the end result.
Leigh - I think that the people all dieing together are significant because everyone has a story, and everyones relationships are to the boiling point. I think Shakespeare does this because all of the characters have to grow and you have to get a feel for all of them before they are gone. All of the characters have significance in the play, so we follow them on their journeys
leigh- i think that all the deaths in the end of the play is shakespeares way of showing that, in the end, we all are punished for our sins. Gertrude sleeps in an incestuous bed, Claudius killed old Hamlet, Hamlet killed Polonius, Laertes was hipocritical towards his sister, and so on. Everyone's sins are paid for by their agonizing deaths.
Class - Referring to the story, Hamlet stated how death brought everyone down to the same level. The question is why? Why does death bring us to the same level? To what level did Ophelia's death bring everyone else???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Leigh - I think that the many deaths happened because there is no real solution to revenge. As we saw before, one murder leads to revenge, and that revenge leads to another, like the link between Claudius, Hamlet, and Laertes. There could be no real "winner" here.
Emily L - I think the details of Hamlet's escape are left vague because it allows the reader to explore the possibilities of what really happened, thus creating interest in the rest of the play.
Leigh- I think that the death in the end is almost inevitable. Claudius obviuosly had to die, and what would Hamlet even do with his life if he survived?. I think Shakespear also wanted to end with a serious bang! Also maybe Hamlet is trying to say death leads to more death?
emily- I dont think he really got taken over by pirates. They would not just let him go. I think this was just his excuse to go kill Cladius. He just realized that he wanted to kill the king and he needed to have a reason to go back to Denmark.
I thought that this portrayal of the gravediggers was significant to the play. Not only is this one of the few moments of comic relief, but I think that it brings a new viewpoint of death that hasn't been brought into the light previously in the play. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Hamlet has seemingly not been afraid of death to this point because he believes that his life is insignificant and everyone else has not been trying very hard to avoid a fate that they may or may not see coming. Death has stayed in the background until this point, but the gravediggers brought it up in a rather insignificant way by trying to be smarter than they are and by making light of the situation in which they find themselves daily.
I dont think that the gravediggers couls be portraying how the middle class is ignorant compared to the higher class. the higher class is actually the ignorant ones because they think that they are better than the others. i agree with allie that they are just a comic relief in the play.
Along with what Brooks is saying about a hero's journey, this act is a clear example of Hamlet's stage of realizing death. Although his father died and that was hard for him, he is now actually seeing people die which makes him realize he is not going to live forever.
It seems like Hamlet is past thinking of suicide because he realizes that his life will end soon enough.
Emily L - I think that Shakespeare is saying that this is the resolution of the play, but also the climaz does come fairly late. It is put into the falling reslution as well as the reslution.
emily- i think so. is final acceptance of his death and the inevitability of his final demise show that this play has pushed hamlet into the final stage of his heroic journey.
The gravediggers are obviously used for comic relief which has been mentioned numerous time before. However, is there an underlying significance of the gravedigger's and te interaction they have with Hamlet? In my mind Hamlet doesn't seem to know exactly what happens after death, and the gravediggers may give him a new perspetive on death. When Hamlet jokes about people just being laid into a box doesn't portray his true feelings of death. I feel that he believes in heaven, because of the death of his father, but Hamlet is not sure when and how the spirit gets to heaven.
Leigh - I have wondered that too. I find it very interesting that the play wasn't very violent, because Hamlet never acted on his emotions and just stood around. But at the end, almost all the cahracters are gone and we find that no one even has a chance for satisfaction. Because of Hamlet's actions, Ophelia and his mother are gone, the last two people in his life he cares about. This brings me to my own question...
Class - Why do you think Hamlet left all his possessions and his throne to Fortinbras? Do you think he knew that he would not survive the final confrontation with Laertes?
Leigh- I see the significance of all the deaths as a new beginning. The royalty was becoming chaotic with Hamlet'crazyness and his want to kill Claudius but accidentally killing Polonius and Laertes going after Hamlet. This shows that the royalty has come corrupt and everyone dies to start a new kingdom under Fortinbras.
liegh- in most of shakespeares plays, the play ends with mostly everyone dieing and shows that the play is coming to a near end. Romeo & juliet, is very similar when it comes to everyone dieing
Rebecca - I don't saying that all of his plays are satirical would be completely accurate, but there is satire seen every once and a while, the gravedigger scene for example.
Sam- Hamlet sort of alludes to your question because at one part he says that a farmer and a lawyer get the same space in the graveyard. People can be on different levels during life, but we end at the same level literally (underground) and figuratively because every one has different possessions and amounts of wealth during life but every person has death at the end of their life. Rich or poor, you will die. After Ohpelia's death, everyone is sinking down towards their death as they have to deal with all the deaths around them. They are all still on different levels, but they are all descending.
Allie M - I agree with you that Shakespeare wanted to go out with a bang, maybe that is what makes his plays so memorable. People know these stories and this could be why, they make people think and draw a reaction to the audience.
Steven- He seemed to have known that this was going to be his final confrontation. He knew that there was more involved in this sword fight and that it would eventually lead to his death. Fortinbras was always good to him and Fortinbras is part of the reason that Hamlet turned around and went back to Denmark to carry out the revenge.
Steven, interesting question. Perhaps he understood what Fortinbras has gone through with the loss of his father. Maybe he is giving this is a gift to Fortinbras because they are on the same level.
Steven - It seemed as though Hamlet declared Fortinbras the king as he was dying, so it was more of a spur-of-the-moment idea, instead of something he had planned out. But he did seem to know that something was going to happen, so there might have been more thought put into it.
Becca - Shakespeare's literary works could be considered satirical. He criticizes women and the middle class, especially. He portrays women as weak, and the middle class as undereducated. This is probably because Shakespeare thought of himself higher than the middle class. The weakness of women in his plays is probably because of his wife, who he left at home for many years.
Leigh– We have to remember that Shakespeare wrote his works to be plays. Their purpose was to entertain and captivate the attention of the audience. By killing everybody off at once, it has a way more significant impact on the reader/audience than if each person just died one at a time. This is a very heavy scene because we have all grown to understand and truly know the characters, and seeing it acted out right in front of you in that time period would definitely leave a long lasting effect.
Steven- I believe Hamlet left the throne for Fortinbras because Hamlet didn't want to be King or he didn't think he could run a country because everyone sees him as crazy.
Steven- I think that in a way, yes, Hamlet was aware that he might not survive. That might be why he ponders death in the grave digger scene so much. I think maybe that he choose Laertes because the rest of the royalty has been wipped out and Laertes represents a new and fresh start for the kingdom of Denmark.
charlie- i agree with your statement. Hamlet seemed to have known that something bad was going to happen but he knew that all he had left was to kill claudius, so if this led to his demise, at least he was going to have a shot at killing claudius.
Class - As I of mentioned on Monday, what do you think of the interaction between Hamlet and the gravediggers? Hamlet says death is guarenteed, so that means that so is the grave digger. How do you feel about this interaction and the meanings that have been provoked by it?
leigh- I think we were all expecting something like this to happen. All the anger and mistrust that builds up during the play has to be released somehow. Romeo and Juliet had the same ending. Both Romeo and Juliet die at the end. In Oedipus Rex Jocasta commits suicide and Oepipus is blinded. Multiple deaths seem to be a theme in the conclusions of tragic literature.
I think Fortinbras was named king because Hamlet saw many similarities between himslef and Fort. and he also admired Fortinbras' decision making. Since there was also not really any other options, this is why Hamlet named him to the throne. I do agree that the decision was mostly spur of the moment, but he might have atleast been thinking about who might make a good king for the country.
allie- fortinbras represents a new start for the kingdom. He's the only one that could possibly inherit the throne without having the taint of corruption within his direct family line. All other potential rulers are related to people who were corrupt or murderous.
Sam-I think that death is such a terrific and unknowable force that no one can escape it by doing deeds, be them good or evil, in this world. Death is inevitable. I think that Ophelia's death brought everyone down from the clouds where they had previously been residing. These characters have been doing as they pleased up until point and Ophelia's death did not fit into any of their best laid plans. They realized that they may no longer be in control and that fate may catch up to them.
Inner Circle - It is obvious that Claudius does not care about anyone else, and his actions throughout the play have been nothing but selfish. Saving Gertrude would not benefit him, and would work against him.
Steven- I feel Hamlet finally understands his role as a tragic hero and that his few roles in life is to pass on the honor of his father to future kings and generations of Denmark. By leaving his possessions for Fortinbras Hamlet understands that he has lost his battle to seek revenge and is doing the only thing he can think of to help celebrate his father's life.
I think that Hamlet knew something was up when he fought Laertes but he felt that he was going to defeat Laertes. It is possible that Hamlet knew the end was near and that could be why he leave his possessions to Fortinbras
Steven - When Hamlet was confronted with Fortinbras's army, Hamlet showed admiration for Fortinbras. He commented on how brave he was and how Fortinbras was unlike him. Hamlet thinks of Fortinbras as a strong person who could probably take the throne and rule well.
Steven- That is a good point because it really shows what he has becomeHe knows that he is going to die and that could tie in to how he goes into the battle with Laertes. That could have been the understanding he needed to commit all the murders that he did.
Courtney: I think the king didn't want to make a big scene because then everyone would know that he was trying to poison hamlet just like he had posioned old hamlet also if he made a scene then the queen would know his plan to kill her son and she would hopefully realize that the king killed her husband
Ian I agree with what you have to say about Claudius, there is no way that he would ever think aobut saving Gertrude. He was only with her because she was the Queen. He just wanted the power, and the control. I also agree with what Brooks said about Shakespeare about women and the way that men treated them during this time, or also a relfection on Shakespeare himself.
leigh- I think Cladius was the worse. He started off by killing king Hamlet and then plotted to kill Hamlet. He convinced Laertes to try to kill Hamlet. He was just selfish the whole entire play. I think he was the worst.
Leigh - I think you are comletely right... they are on the same level. Which makes me wonder about how he felt about the situation between the two thrones, with both fathers being killed and all. And in this seen he says that death brings us all to the same level too, so does that mean not always your own death, but the death of a loved one?
leigh- i see Claudius as the main bad guy. He sleeps with his sister in law, murders his brother, trys to kill his son-in-law, ends up killing his sister-in-law. He's just not a good person all around.
I think that the worst bad guy in the play would have to be Claudius. He carried out a selfish act with killing king hamlet. married his wife, and tried to carry out a plot to kill Hamlet. everything that he has done during the play was selfish in someway and woiuld put somebody into danger. he was careless and only had evil motives. Claudius in my opinion is the bad guy
Leigh- That is a hard question to answer because everyone could be seen as the "bad guy" but I think Claudius is worst. First off, he killed Hamlet the King for his own selfishness or jealousy, and then when Hamlet found out, he covered it up. Also, he encouraged Laertes to kill Hamlet just to get rid of Hamlet's threat. Then at the end, he knew the cup was poisoned but still he didn't do anything to save his wife, for the benefit of himself.
Leigh- the worst bad guy was definitely CLaudius. He was the one who started the entire conflict. He commmited adultery, murdered his own brother, and treated everyone else horribly. All of these things he did only for personal gain. Hamlet murdered for his father so that he could rest in peace, Gertrude only was incestuous (she didn't kill anyone), and Laertes wanted to kill for his father but apologized in the end. Hamlet comes in second though because he allowed himself to lose control too often and hurt Gertrude and even more, Ophelia.
Leigh – First of all, I think your comment about how Hamlet left his possessions to Fortinbras because he might feel they went through the same stuff is quite brilliant and completely accurate. Furthermore (in response to that question) I think that Hamlet might just simply be totally sick of everyone around him. None of them are really on his side, so why would he leave his things to any of them?
And about the mood thing, the audience probably leaves the play feeling extremely down and depressed. I think this may have been a strategy of Shakespeare’s to get them to think outside the box. Maybe he was trying to make people consider their lives, their relationships, and the structure of their government through this heavy content.
Leigh - The worst guy in Hamlet is Polonius. Out of all the characters, he seems to be the most devious and sneaky. He is like the rat of the play. Polonius only gets close to others for his advantage. He spies on his son and uses Ophelia to spy on Hamlet. He has no concern for anyone but himself.
Leigh - I think the worst person in the play would be Claudius because he is the only who created the whole mess. He killed king hamlet, he married his brothers widow, he exiled his step son to England. There is nothing that he ever did in the play that was beneficial to anyone else but himself.
Iain- I agree that Claudius is a bad person, full of selfishness and personal corruption. He killed King Hamlet for personal benefits and quickly remarried his dead brothers wife. He tries to cover up his actions throughout the play and Hamlet is the only one smart enough to analyze the evidence and accuse Claudius of his wrongdoing. Then he doesn't make a strong enough effort to stop Gertrude of drinking the poisoned wine, which proves again that he only cares about himself and no one else.
Leigh-I would like to bring up the idea from a previous fishbowl. I think that the characters in this play are so motivated through they're own greed and intentions that none deserve the title of "worst 'bad guy'". Hamlet wanted revenge and killed along the way. Claudius wanted power and had to kill to get it. Neither of them are driven by any sort of apparent virtue and thus may be equally at fault.
Leigh- I agree with Charlie. Claudius is the ultimate bad guy! He is the one who started the cycle of death and deciet. Most of the other characters committed sin for revenge or out of despair. Claudius killed to move up in his position in the kingdom. Selfish.
Soo - Based on what you said, do you think that by leaving the throne to Forinbras, he showed his last act of heroism because he did what was right for his country and not for his own intentions.
Matt - While not the worst bad guy, I think that Hamlet is definetely not a good person. His drive for revenge consumed him and hurt those around him. He is just as selfish as Claudius.
Weems- I think Hamlet is a bad guy also but his motives were different. He just did was his fathers ghost told him. This just drove him mad and caused him to kill a few more people in the story. Murder is not good so he is a bad guy. Just Cladius is worse.
Sam - As I have mentioned to Soo, I feel as though Hamlet's trajic hero qualities shine through when he leaves the throne to Fortinbras, which is best for the entire country.
I thought it was curious that Horatio was the last one standing at the end. He's doesn't come up in the story often but when he does its usually at an important part. Horatio is present when Hamlet sees the ghost. Hamlet's encounter with the ghost gives him what he needs mentally to kill Claudius. Horatio is the one that is observing Claudius during the play. His observations assure Hamlets suspicions. He has done his part in moving the play towards its tragic ending. What does his appearence at the end of the play symbolize?
Sam- Hamlet fits the tragic hero definition because he let his emotions run his actions even when it wasn't working. This weakness lead to the death of himself and others close to him.
Class- I would like to bring up the idea of loyalty and friendship in this question. Horatio has stayed by Hamlet's side through the entirety of the play. Do you think he did this through his loyalty and friendship to Hamlet or because he was simply in servitude of Hamlet?
Steven- I agree with you. Hamlet putting Fortinbras in command of Denmark is a selfless act that will surely be the best thing for the courty. For Hamlet to put others before himself despite his bad background with Fortinbras shows strong morals.
Matt - Hamlet could be seen as a bad guy. No one was really "good" in this play anyway. But I guess he is better than Claudius or Polonius.
Steven - I guess it could be his final act of heroism. Leaving it to Fortinbras means that there will be someone to rule the country, since obviously everyone else that could rule is dead. So thinking of the good of the country could be his final act.
Class: Do you think that Opheila was going crazy because of the death of her father and because of the way Hamlet was treating her or do you think she could have been pretending to be crazy like Hamlet so that when she killed herself people would just think she was crazy
kyle- well, i don't know about anyone else, but i wouldn't kill myself over my masters death. I'd be kinda happy that i wouldn't have to listen to him anymore. I think that the Horatio-Hamlet relationship is definetly one of friendship, not of servitude.
Rebecca- revenge is what kills all of the people in the play. Hamlet gets revenge towards Ophelia by rejecting her and being cruel to her, and then she dies. Claudius and Laertes plan kills them, Gertrude, and Hamlet. The one thing is that Old Hamlet was not killed for revenge, or was he? Was it because Claudius wanted Gertrude and the throne, or did he also do it because he has always been second best and Old Hamlet never allowed him to get the spotlight once in a while? Does that make it Old Hamlet's fault he was murdered?
Hamlet is a tragic hero because he is open with his emotions and ends up dieing in the end for a good cause. he fits the definition because all the events during the play led to his death
Kyle- I believe Horatio stayed with Hamlet because he is loyal to Hamlet both as a friend and servant. It would've been easy to leave Hamlet because everyone thinks he is crazy but Horatio stayed with him. -Bye Kyle...
steven- thank you for bringing up pirates again. I think pirates are awesome, much more awesome than ninjas in case anyone was wondering. Are you a pirate or ninja?
Leigh - I would have to say that Claudius is definetly portrayed as the "bad guy" in this play according to what he has done. But more importantly, is what he has done equally as "bad" as what Hamlet has done, or what Laertes has done? I think we see Claudius as the "bad guy" because shakespeare did not focus the story on Claudius, but rather Hamlet. I think the reason we don't see Hamlet or Laertes or Gertrude as any of the "bad guys" is because throughout the play all of their actions are given explanations and reasons, causing us to be sympathetic towards them. For Claudius, we don't exactly get a reason for why he has done what he did to Old Hamlet, so on and so forth, except that he's selfish and is only out to please himself. But again, this is a selfish play, and in saying this, I think any main character in this play could qualify as a "bad guy."
Shaina - I think that both of these instances are why Ophelia committed suicide. I think that she was actually crazy and wasn't pretending. She might be the only character that you can say this about.
Joe-I agree with Iain that they loved Ophelia differently because of the situation. However, that could prove that Hamlet loved her more. Just because she is Laertes sister he is forced to love her. However Hamlet loves her beyond a sisterly forced love and loves her beyond wanting just a sexual relationship with her
Joe – Hamlet loved Ophelia more not only because he was probably closer to her (Laertes didn’t even live in the same country as her throughout this play), but also because he loved her in a romantic way rather than a brother/sister way. I’m not saying that brothers and sisters can’t love each other as much as lovers can, but in this case it doesn’t really seem like Ophelia and Laertes are that close. Sure he cares about her and looked out for her at the beginning of the play, but he did not ever prove real love for her. Hamlet knew that she was not on a high enough social level to really be with him, but he still fell in love with her anyway, proving his love was genuine.
Becca - The whole play is about revenge. That is practically what Hamlet thinks about the whole time during the play, and eventually leads to Laertes's revenge. Revenge is one of the key themes in Hamlet.
sam- you have a good point. Everyone in the play was a bad guy in the play in some way. But i don't see how Horatio was a bad guy. Could you explain that to me?
Rebecca- Revenge is a great attribute to the play. Every character who has suffered a great loss is trying to seek revenge on the other person. Hamlet is seeking revenge on Claudius for killing his father. Fortinbras is seeking revenge on Hamlet for the loss of his land. And Laertes is seeking revenge for the death of his father, Polonius. All of these characters create a web of revenge that creates the plot of the play. Towards the end of the play all characters come together and the consequences of their actions are fulfilled. It is an unfortunate end that only one of the people seeking revenge is alive but that is understandable because that would not be a great Shakespearian play full of conflict and tragedy.
Matt- Pirates may be cool, but cannot be compared at all to ninjas. Ninjas use their skill that they learned over years and pirates can shoot cannons off of boats and be total bad guys. They are both too cool to choose which is better.
Kyle: I think that Horatio remained a loyal friend because they were truly friends and with all the chaos going on they needed to be friends with eachother and Horatio needed to be friends with Hamlet just as much as Hamlet need to be Horatio friend
steven-that just means your a sneaky imposter pirate who is really a ninja. I'm kicking you out of the pirate fan club unless you remedy your ways and return to the light.
Soo- I agree that is one of the main themes of this story. That is what drives all the murders and they would not have occured without revenge. Hamlet ended up killing 3 people and himself looking for revenge. Laertes death was caused by revenge. As well as Ophelias who was caught up in Hamlets ideas of revenge.
Emily L. - Good point... How did he get home? Was the letter about the pirates a trick for Claudius? Because it doesn't seem like pirates would let a prisoner go, especially since Hamlet is a prince.
inner circle's question- Some characters are afraid of death and some are not. Hamlet is willing to kill Claudius no matter what the consiquences. In this sense, Hamlet is unselfish. Claudius would have been afraid because he has done things to further himself in the living world that would not help him much in the afterlfe.
Emily L – I like that question. I don’t think Claudius was exactly getting revenge on old Hamlet. Instead, it was more out of jealousy. It is fascinating how Shakespeare somehow manages to incorporate all these different elements of a drama into one story.
I find it ironic how some of the characters who weren't tragic heros died at the of the play. I also like how the characters associated with the tragic hero's died. Gertrude for example died at the end of the play by drinking the poisoned wine intended for killing Hamlet. I feel that her death was unjust because the king's ghost wanted nothing more then to keep Gertrude out of the conflict and to only focus his revenge on Claudius.
Sam T - The conclusion of this play definetly shows how tragic the story of Hamlet's life was. We see Hamlet, in the beggining, we see his innocence as losing a father and being very upset and bothered by it. Then we see him lose his innocence by learning the truth of his fathers death and begin to see a change in his ways. By changing his ways, chaos is created and everyone in the play seems to lose control as the truth begins to be revealed. Resolution comes to play in the end as Hamlet kills Claudius and everone else dies.
Class - Seeing that Hamlet got what he wanted, which was to kill Claudius, could you then say that this play truly was tragic? I think it was tragic in a way that Hamlet dies and we have sympathy for him for losing his father. Compared to other tragic hero stories, it doesn't seem to end with the hero getting what he wanted but rather succumbing to a tragic fate. Hamlet knew he was going to die and all he wanted to do was kill Claudius, and at the end we see that he recieved what he wanted.
141 comments:
yay hamlet
Ditto
The gravedigger was accustomed to death, so he made jokes cause he didn't think it was that big of a deal. Just stating that to the inner circle.
In response to Melinda's question about the significance of the gravediggers being clowns, it is mostly because they are used as the comic relief. I think it is ironic that the gravediggers, who deal daily with such a serious thing like death, are portrayed as clowns. This is definitely an example of comic relief.
I think Shakespeare was making fun of the middle class because they were uneducated but wanted to be. It seems like that is one of the defining characteristics of that class. I also agree with that it was comic relief.
Brooks- i know you're on the inner circle so you won't know that i'm even talking but i'll say it anyways. I agree with your statement that Hamlets comfort with death forshadows his upcoming death.
Grave digger = comic relif
Class-In this last act there is a large amount of death. By the end we have seen that at least 7 characters have died. What is significant about the number of deaths that occur so late in the play?
Allie- thank you for that deep and meaningful comment. It has changed my outlook on life and the dynamic of this fishbowl.
I am confused what really happened with Hamlet and the pirates. Did he really get back because he went over to their ship when they were attacked or was it something else?
I think that the gravediggers are portraying how the middle class is so ignorant compared to the high class, like Hamlet. Maybe Shakespeare is showing what the people think, instead of the royalty.
Leigh - I think it is Shakespeare's way of showing that the play is coming to and end. This is sort of the grand finale, and we finally see some closure for the characters.
Leigh- It was obvious that an outcome like this would occur. It is just interesting he had almost all the deaths at the end. I think he just wanted to show the steps of the emotions of characters and how they come to the end result.
Matt, I completely agree. Do you think this means Hamlet is in the final stage of a hero - the resolution?
Leigh - I think that the people all dieing together are significant because everyone has a story, and everyones relationships are to the boiling point. I think Shakespeare does this because all of the characters have to grow and you have to get a feel for all of them before they are gone. All of the characters have significance in the play, so we follow them on their journeys
leigh- i think that all the deaths in the end of the play is shakespeares way of showing that, in the end, we all are punished for our sins. Gertrude sleeps in an incestuous bed, Claudius killed old Hamlet, Hamlet killed Polonius, Laertes was hipocritical towards his sister, and so on. Everyone's sins are paid for by their agonizing deaths.
Class - Referring to the story, Hamlet stated how death brought everyone down to the same level. The question is why? Why does death bring us to the same level? To what level did Ophelia's death bring everyone else???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Emily L – I agree about Shakespeare’s “mocking” of the middle class. This is just one of many aspects of his society he seems to make fun of.
Class – Do you think Shakespeare’s literary works could be considered satirical? What does this all say about his life?
Leigh - I think that the many deaths happened because there is no real solution to revenge. As we saw before, one murder leads to revenge, and that revenge leads to another, like the link between Claudius, Hamlet, and Laertes. There could be no real "winner" here.
Emily L - I think the details of Hamlet's escape are left vague because it allows the reader to explore the possibilities of what really happened, thus creating interest in the rest of the play.
Leigh- I think that the death in the end is almost inevitable. Claudius obviuosly had to die, and what would Hamlet even do with his life if he survived?. I think Shakespear also wanted to end with a serious bang! Also maybe Hamlet is trying to say death leads to more death?
emily- I dont think he really got taken over by pirates. They would not just let him go. I think this was just his excuse to go kill Cladius. He just realized that he wanted to kill the king and he needed to have a reason to go back to Denmark.
I thought that this portrayal of the gravediggers was significant to the play. Not only is this one of the few moments of comic relief, but I think that it brings a new viewpoint of death that hasn't been brought into the light previously in the play. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Hamlet has seemingly not been afraid of death to this point because he believes that his life is insignificant and everyone else has not been trying very hard to avoid a fate that they may or may not see coming. Death has stayed in the background until this point, but the gravediggers brought it up in a rather insignificant way by trying to be smarter than they are and by making light of the situation in which they find themselves daily.
I dont think that the gravediggers couls be portraying how the middle class is ignorant compared to the higher class. the higher class is actually the ignorant ones because they think that they are better than the others. i agree with allie that they are just a comic relief in the play.
Along with what Brooks is saying about a hero's journey, this act is a clear example of Hamlet's stage of realizing death. Although his father died and that was hard for him, he is now actually seeing people die which makes him realize he is not going to live forever.
It seems like Hamlet is past thinking of suicide because he realizes that his life will end soon enough.
Sam/Joe/ Kyle- can you go and get the films from my desk? I forgot them!
Emily L - I think that Shakespeare is saying that this is the resolution of the play, but also the climaz does come fairly late. It is put into the falling reslution as well as the reslution.
emily- i think so. is final acceptance of his death and the inevitability of his final demise show that this play has pushed hamlet into the final stage of his heroic journey.
The gravediggers are obviously used for comic relief which has been mentioned numerous time before. However, is there an underlying significance of the gravedigger's and te interaction they have with Hamlet? In my mind Hamlet doesn't seem to know exactly what happens after death, and the gravediggers may give him a new perspetive on death. When Hamlet jokes about people just being laid into a box doesn't portray his true feelings of death. I feel that he believes in heaven, because of the death of his father, but Hamlet is not sure when and how the spirit gets to heaven.
Leigh - I have wondered that too. I find it very interesting that the play wasn't very violent, because Hamlet never acted on his emotions and just stood around. But at the end, almost all the cahracters are gone and we find that no one even has a chance for satisfaction. Because of Hamlet's actions, Ophelia and his mother are gone, the last two people in his life he cares about. This brings me to my own question...
Class - Why do you think Hamlet left all his possessions and his throne to Fortinbras? Do you think he knew that he would not survive the final confrontation with Laertes?
Leigh- I see the significance of all the deaths as a new beginning. The royalty was becoming chaotic with Hamlet'crazyness and his want to kill Claudius but accidentally killing Polonius and Laertes going after Hamlet. This shows that the royalty has come corrupt and everyone dies to start a new kingdom under Fortinbras.
Matt- do you think that all people that sin will be killed then if they do not repent soon enough?
liegh- in most of shakespeares plays, the play ends with mostly everyone dieing and shows that the play is coming to a near end. Romeo & juliet, is very similar when it comes to everyone dieing
Allie M - I agree. Maybe Hamlet is saying that nothing good can come from any kind of revenge, and that we should forgive those who have wronged us.
Rebecca - I don't saying that all of his plays are satirical would be completely accurate, but there is satire seen every once and a while, the gravedigger scene for example.
Sam- Hamlet sort of alludes to your question because at one part he says that a farmer and a lawyer get the same space in the graveyard. People can be on different levels during life, but we end at the same level literally (underground) and figuratively because every one has different possessions and amounts of wealth during life but every person has death at the end of their life. Rich or poor, you will die. After Ohpelia's death, everyone is sinking down towards their death as they have to deal with all the deaths around them. They are all still on different levels, but they are all descending.
leigh- in shakespeares time i think that they could have held that belief. Personally no, but shakespeare makes it seem as though he believes that.
Allie M - I agree with you that Shakespeare wanted to go out with a bang, maybe that is what makes his plays so memorable. People know these stories and this could be why, they make people think and draw a reaction to the audience.
Steven- He seemed to have known that this was going to be his final confrontation. He knew that there was more involved in this sword fight and that it would eventually lead to his death. Fortinbras was always good to him and Fortinbras is part of the reason that Hamlet turned around and went back to Denmark to carry out the revenge.
Steven, interesting question. Perhaps he understood what Fortinbras has gone through with the loss of his father. Maybe he is giving this is a gift to Fortinbras because they are on the same level.
Thanks! You are so nice!
Steven - It seemed as though Hamlet declared Fortinbras the king as he was dying, so it was more of a spur-of-the-moment idea, instead of something he had planned out. But he did seem to know that something was going to happen, so there might have been more thought put into it.
Becca - Shakespeare's literary works could be considered satirical. He criticizes women and the middle class, especially. He portrays women as weak, and the middle class as undereducated. This is probably because Shakespeare thought of himself higher than the middle class. The weakness of women in his plays is probably because of his wife, who he left at home for many years.
Leigh– We have to remember that Shakespeare wrote his works to be plays. Their purpose was to entertain and captivate the attention of the audience. By killing everybody off at once, it has a way more significant impact on the reader/audience than if each person just died one at a time. This is a very heavy scene because we have all grown to understand and truly know the characters, and seeing it acted out right in front of you in that time period would definitely leave a long lasting effect.
Steven- I believe Hamlet left the throne for Fortinbras because Hamlet didn't want to be King or he didn't think he could run a country because everyone sees him as crazy.
sam- i think that hamlet was saying that death is inevitable and that in the end we will all be dead and be brought down to the same level.
Steven- I think that in a way, yes, Hamlet was aware that he might not survive. That might be why he ponders death in the grave digger scene so much. I think maybe that he choose Laertes because the rest of the royalty has been wipped out and Laertes represents a new and fresh start for the kingdom of Denmark.
charlie- i agree with your statement. Hamlet seemed to have known that something bad was going to happen but he knew that all he had left was to kill claudius, so if this led to his demise, at least he was going to have a shot at killing claudius.
Class - As I of mentioned on Monday, what do you think of the interaction between Hamlet and the gravediggers? Hamlet says death is guarenteed, so that means that so is the grave digger. How do you feel about this interaction and the meanings that have been provoked by it?
Has anyone else noticed that Jacki and Mrs. Smith are wearing the same outfit??
leigh- I think we were all expecting something like this to happen. All the anger and mistrust that builds up during the play has to be released somehow. Romeo and Juliet had the same ending. Both Romeo and Juliet die at the end. In Oedipus Rex Jocasta commits suicide and Oepipus is blinded. Multiple deaths seem to be a theme in the conclusions of tragic literature.
I think Fortinbras was named king because Hamlet saw many similarities between himslef and Fort. and he also admired Fortinbras' decision making. Since there was also not really any other options, this is why Hamlet named him to the throne. I do agree that the decision was mostly spur of the moment, but he might have atleast been thinking about who might make a good king for the country.
allie- fortinbras represents a new start for the kingdom. He's the only one that could possibly inherit the throne without having the taint of corruption within his direct family line. All other potential rulers are related to people who were corrupt or murderous.
Leigh- hahaha
Rebecca- how do you think that is significant in the mood that the audience leaves with?
Sam-I think that death is such a terrific and unknowable force that no one can escape it by doing deeds, be them good or evil, in this world. Death is inevitable. I think that Ophelia's death brought everyone down from the clouds where they had previously been residing. These characters have been doing as they pleased up until point and Ophelia's death did not fit into any of their best laid plans. They realized that they may no longer be in control and that fate may catch up to them.
Inner Circle - It is obvious that Claudius does not care about anyone else, and his actions throughout the play have been nothing but selfish. Saving Gertrude would not benefit him, and would work against him.
forget the "of" in my previous post...
Steven- I feel Hamlet finally understands his role as a tragic hero and that his few roles in life is to pass on the honor of his father to future kings and generations of Denmark. By leaving his possessions for Fortinbras Hamlet understands that he has lost his battle to seek revenge and is doing the only thing he can think of to help celebrate his father's life.
I think that Hamlet knew something was up when he fought Laertes but he felt that he was going to defeat Laertes. It is possible that Hamlet knew the end was near and that could be why he leave his possessions to Fortinbras
Thanks Leigh, they have been embarrassed enough already
Steven - When Hamlet was confronted with Fortinbras's army, Hamlet showed admiration for Fortinbras. He commented on how brave he was and how Fortinbras was unlike him. Hamlet thinks of Fortinbras as a strong person who could probably take the throne and rule well.
Steven- That is a good point because it really shows what he has becomeHe knows that he is going to die and that could tie in to how he goes into the battle with Laertes. That could have been the understanding he needed to commit all the murders that he did.
Class-who do you think is the worst "bad guy" in the play and why?
Weems- sorry i meant to say Fortinbras not Laertes! duh
kyle- excellent use of metaphors. I like how you said people were "in the clouds". Nicely done.
leigh- wow, you are right...that's really weird.
Courtney: I think the king didn't want to make a big scene because then everyone would know that he was trying to poison hamlet just like he had posioned old hamlet also if he made a scene then the queen would know his plan to kill her son and she would hopefully realize that the king killed her husband
Thanks weemsy, I think you are pretty cool as well.
Ian I agree with what you have to say about Claudius, there is no way that he would ever think aobut saving Gertrude. He was only with her because she was the Queen. He just wanted the power, and the control. I also agree with what Brooks said about Shakespeare about women and the way that men treated them during this time, or also a relfection on Shakespeare himself.
leigh- I think Cladius was the worse. He started off by killing king Hamlet and then plotted to kill Hamlet. He convinced Laertes to try to kill Hamlet. He was just selfish the whole entire play. I think he was the worst.
Leigh - I think you are comletely right... they are on the same level. Which makes me wonder about how he felt about the situation between the two thrones, with both fathers being killed and all. And in this seen he says that death brings us all to the same level too, so does that mean not always your own death, but the death of a loved one?
leigh- i see Claudius as the main bad guy. He sleeps with his sister in law, murders his brother, trys to kill his son-in-law, ends up killing his sister-in-law. He's just not a good person all around.
I think that the worst bad guy in the play would have to be Claudius. He carried out a selfish act with killing king hamlet. married his wife, and tried to carry out a plot to kill Hamlet. everything that he has done during the play was selfish in someway and woiuld put somebody into danger. he was careless and only had evil motives. Claudius in my opinion is the bad guy
Leigh- That is a hard question to answer because everyone could be seen as the "bad guy" but I think Claudius is worst. First off, he killed Hamlet the King for his own selfishness or jealousy, and then when Hamlet found out, he covered it up. Also, he encouraged Laertes to kill Hamlet just to get rid of Hamlet's threat. Then at the end, he knew the cup was poisoned but still he didn't do anything to save his wife, for the benefit of himself.
Leigh- the worst bad guy was definitely CLaudius. He was the one who started the entire conflict. He commmited adultery, murdered his own brother, and treated everyone else horribly. All of these things he did only for personal gain. Hamlet murdered for his father so that he could rest in peace, Gertrude only was incestuous (she didn't kill anyone), and Laertes wanted to kill for his father but apologized in the end. Hamlet comes in second though because he allowed himself to lose control too often and hurt Gertrude and even more, Ophelia.
Leigh – First of all, I think your comment about how Hamlet left his possessions to Fortinbras because he might feel they went through the same stuff is quite brilliant and completely accurate. Furthermore (in response to that question) I think that Hamlet might just simply be totally sick of everyone around him. None of them are really on his side, so why would he leave his things to any of them?
And about the mood thing, the audience probably leaves the play feeling extremely down and depressed. I think this may have been a strategy of Shakespeare’s to get them to think outside the box. Maybe he was trying to make people consider their lives, their relationships, and the structure of their government through this heavy content.
Leigh - The worst guy in Hamlet is Polonius. Out of all the characters, he seems to be the most devious and sneaky. He is like the rat of the play. Polonius only gets close to others for his advantage. He spies on his son and uses Ophelia to spy on Hamlet. He has no concern for anyone but himself.
Leigh - I think the worst person in the play would be Claudius because he is the only who created the whole mess. He killed king hamlet, he married his brothers widow, he exiled his step son to England. There is nothing that he ever did in the play that was beneficial to anyone else but himself.
Class - Now that we have seen the outcome of this whole story, how does the tragic hero definition fit in with Hamlet's life?
Iain- I agree that Claudius is a bad person, full of selfishness and personal corruption. He killed King Hamlet for personal benefits and quickly remarried his dead brothers wife. He tries to cover up his actions throughout the play and Hamlet is the only one smart enough to analyze the evidence and accuse Claudius of his wrongdoing. Then he doesn't make a strong enough effort to stop Gertrude of drinking the poisoned wine, which proves again that he only cares about himself and no one else.
I would agree with Weems and Dan. Claudius is without a doubt the epitome of a bad guy.
well,since it seems we can all agree that claudius is the worst bad guy, do you think that hamlet can be seen as a bad guy?
Leigh-I would like to bring up the idea from a previous fishbowl. I think that the characters in this play are so motivated through they're own greed and intentions that none deserve the title of "worst 'bad guy'". Hamlet wanted revenge and killed along the way. Claudius wanted power and had to kill to get it. Neither of them are driven by any sort of apparent virtue and thus may be equally at fault.
Leigh- I agree with Charlie. Claudius is the ultimate bad guy! He is the one who started the cycle of death and deciet. Most of the other characters committed sin for revenge or out of despair. Claudius killed to move up in his position in the kingdom. Selfish.
Soo - Based on what you said, do you think that by leaving the throne to Forinbras, he showed his last act of heroism because he did what was right for his country and not for his own intentions.
Matt - While not the worst bad guy, I think that Hamlet is definetely not a good person. His drive for revenge consumed him and hurt those around him. He is just as selfish as Claudius.
Class- Who loves Ophelia more Hamlet or Laertes?
Matt - i think that Hamlet can be percieved as a bad guy but in the end he was just a confused guy that was the victim in all of this.
Class - How does the theme of revenge apply to this play?
Weems- I think Hamlet is a bad guy also but his motives were different. He just did was his fathers ghost told him. This just drove him mad and caused him to kill a few more people in the story. Murder is not good so he is a bad guy. Just Cladius is worse.
joe- hamlet
Sam - As I have mentioned to Soo, I feel as though Hamlet's trajic hero qualities shine through when he leaves the throne to Fortinbras, which is best for the entire country.
I thought it was curious that Horatio was the last one standing at the end. He's doesn't come up in the story often but when he does its usually at an important part. Horatio is present when Hamlet sees the ghost. Hamlet's encounter with the ghost gives him what he needs mentally to kill Claudius. Horatio is the one that is observing Claudius during the play. His observations assure Hamlets suspicions. He has done his part in moving the play towards its tragic ending. What does his appearence at the end of the play symbolize?
Joe - They have different kinds of love. Laertes loves her as a brother, Hamlet just wants her bod.
Sam- Hamlet fits the tragic hero definition because he let his emotions run his actions even when it wasn't working. This weakness lead to the death of himself and others close to him.
Class- I would like to bring up the idea of loyalty and friendship in this question. Horatio has stayed by Hamlet's side through the entirety of the play. Do you think he did this through his loyalty and friendship to Hamlet or because he was simply in servitude of Hamlet?
iain- word
Just because we need this...
How do you guys feel about pirates?
Steven- I agree with you. Hamlet putting Fortinbras in command of Denmark is a selfless act that will surely be the best thing for the courty. For Hamlet to put others before himself despite his bad background with Fortinbras shows strong morals.
Matt - Hamlet could be seen as a bad guy. No one was really "good" in this play anyway. But I guess he is better than Claudius or Polonius.
Steven - I guess it could be his final act of heroism. Leaving it to Fortinbras means that there will be someone to rule the country, since obviously everyone else that could rule is dead. So thinking of the good of the country could be his final act.
Class: Do you think that Opheila was going crazy because of the death of her father and because of the way Hamlet was treating her or do you think she could have been pretending to be crazy like Hamlet so that when she killed herself people would just think she was crazy
Steven- pirates are very cool.
kyle- well, i don't know about anyone else, but i wouldn't kill myself over my masters death. I'd be kinda happy that i wouldn't have to listen to him anymore. I think that the Horatio-Hamlet relationship is definetly one of friendship, not of servitude.
Rebecca- revenge is what kills all of the people in the play. Hamlet gets revenge towards Ophelia by rejecting her and being cruel to her, and then she dies. Claudius and Laertes plan kills them, Gertrude, and Hamlet. The one thing is that Old Hamlet was not killed for revenge, or was he? Was it because Claudius wanted Gertrude and the throne, or did he also do it because he has always been second best and Old Hamlet never allowed him to get the spotlight once in a while? Does that make it Old Hamlet's fault he was murdered?
Kyle - I believe that even though Horatio was in service to Hamlet, he had a sort of brotherly love for him. P.S - I miss Kyle.
i miss kyle
Hamlet is a tragic hero because he is open with his emotions and ends up dieing in the end for a good cause. he fits the definition because all the events during the play led to his death
Steven - Pirates are way better than ninjas.
Kyle- I believe Horatio stayed with Hamlet because he is loyal to Hamlet both as a friend and servant. It would've been easy to leave Hamlet because everyone thinks he is crazy but Horatio stayed with him.
-Bye Kyle...
steven- thank you for bringing up pirates again. I think pirates are awesome, much more awesome than ninjas in case anyone was wondering. Are you a pirate or ninja?
Leigh - I would have to say that Claudius is definetly portrayed as the "bad guy" in this play according to what he has done. But more importantly, is what he has done equally as "bad" as what Hamlet has done, or what Laertes has done? I think we see Claudius as the "bad guy" because shakespeare did not focus the story on Claudius, but rather Hamlet. I think the reason we don't see Hamlet or Laertes or Gertrude as any of the "bad guys" is because throughout the play all of their actions are given explanations and reasons, causing us to be sympathetic towards them. For Claudius, we don't exactly get a reason for why he has done what he did to Old Hamlet, so on and so forth, except that he's selfish and is only out to please himself. But again, this is a selfish play, and in saying this, I think any main character in this play could qualify as a "bad guy."
Matt - I am definetely a pirate. FO SHO!
Shaina - I think that both of these instances are why Ophelia committed suicide. I think that she was actually crazy and wasn't pretending. She might be the only character that you can say this about.
Joe-I agree with Iain that they loved Ophelia differently because of the situation. However, that could prove that Hamlet loved her more. Just because she is Laertes sister he is forced to love her. However Hamlet loves her beyond a sisterly forced love and loves her beyond wanting just a sexual relationship with her
Steven- pirates arrrrr awesome. duh.
Did Hamlet really get a ride home with the pirates? If not, how did he get home?
Joe – Hamlet loved Ophelia more not only because he was probably closer to her (Laertes didn’t even live in the same country as her throughout this play), but also because he loved her in a romantic way rather than a brother/sister way. I’m not saying that brothers and sisters can’t love each other as much as lovers can, but in this case it doesn’t really seem like Ophelia and Laertes are that close. Sure he cares about her and looked out for her at the beginning of the play, but he did not ever prove real love for her. Hamlet knew that she was not on a high enough social level to really be with him, but he still fell in love with her anyway, proving his love was genuine.
Becca - The whole play is about revenge. That is practically what Hamlet thinks about the whole time during the play, and eventually leads to Laertes's revenge. Revenge is one of the key themes in Hamlet.
I really can't answer that... I am a Pirate by day and a Ninja by night!!!! You?
Iain- you are SO not a pirate! haha
sam- you have a good point. Everyone in the play was a bad guy in the play in some way. But i don't see how Horatio was a bad guy. Could you explain that to me?
Rebecca- Revenge is a great attribute to the play. Every character who has suffered a great loss is trying to seek revenge on the other person. Hamlet is seeking revenge on Claudius for killing his father. Fortinbras is seeking revenge on Hamlet for the loss of his land. And Laertes is seeking revenge for the death of his father, Polonius. All of these characters create a web of revenge that creates the plot of the play. Towards the end of the play all characters come together and the consequences of their actions are fulfilled. It is an unfortunate end that only one of the people seeking revenge is alive but that is understandable because that would not be a great Shakespearian play full of conflict and tragedy.
Matt- Pirates may be cool, but cannot be compared at all to ninjas. Ninjas use their skill that they learned over years and pirates can shoot cannons off of boats and be total bad guys. They are both too cool to choose which is better.
Kyle: I think that Horatio remained a loyal friend because they were truly friends and with all the chaos going on they needed to be friends with eachother and Horatio needed to be friends with Hamlet just as much as Hamlet need to be Horatio friend
Allie - How so?
steven-that just means your a sneaky imposter pirate who is really a ninja. I'm kicking you out of the pirate fan club unless you remedy your ways and return to the light.
Soo- I agree that is one of the main themes of this story. That is what drives all the murders and they would not have occured without revenge. Hamlet ended up killing 3 people and himself looking for revenge. Laertes death was caused by revenge. As well as Ophelias who was caught up in Hamlets ideas of revenge.
Emily L. - Good point... How did he get home? Was the letter about the pirates a trick for Claudius? Because it doesn't seem like pirates would let a prisoner go, especially since Hamlet is a prince.
Iain- It's just not happenin for ya. im sorrrrry!
Pirates do get better outfits though...
Class - How do you think the single friendship of Horatio affected his mental stability? Was it important that he really did have one true friend?
So im a ninja because I can take all of you
Charlie - So it is obvious that hamlet is as bad of a murderer as Claudius.
LAST WORD: YAY PIRATES!!!!!
inner circle's question- Some characters are afraid of death and some are not. Hamlet is willing to kill Claudius no matter what the consiquences. In this sense, Hamlet is unselfish. Claudius would have been afraid because he has done things to further himself in the living world that would not help him much in the afterlfe.
Emily L – I like that question. I don’t think Claudius was exactly getting revenge on old Hamlet. Instead, it was more out of jealousy. It is fascinating how Shakespeare somehow manages to incorporate all these different elements of a drama into one story.
I find it ironic how some of the characters who weren't tragic heros died at the of the play. I also like how the characters associated with the tragic hero's died. Gertrude for example died at the end of the play by drinking the poisoned wine intended for killing Hamlet. I feel that her death was unjust because the king's ghost wanted nothing more then to keep Gertrude out of the conflict and to only focus his revenge on Claudius.
Sam T - The conclusion of this play definetly shows how tragic the story of Hamlet's life was. We see Hamlet, in the beggining, we see his innocence as losing a father and being very upset and bothered by it. Then we see him lose his innocence by learning the truth of his fathers death and begin to see a change in his ways. By changing his ways, chaos is created and everyone in the play seems to lose control as the truth begins to be revealed. Resolution comes to play in the end as Hamlet kills Claudius and everone else dies.
Class - Seeing that Hamlet got what he wanted, which was to kill Claudius, could you then say that this play truly was tragic? I think it was tragic in a way that Hamlet dies and we have sympathy for him for losing his father. Compared to other tragic hero stories, it doesn't seem to end with the hero getting what he wanted but rather succumbing to a tragic fate. Hamlet knew he was going to die and all he wanted to do was kill Claudius, and at the end we see that he recieved what he wanted.
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